PvM Help Corner

Alaska

Hello there!

Going along with the final front of the Elder God Wars Dungeon, we are hosting a dedicated thread where clanmates can direct PvM related questions to people in the clan that are keen to assist. Given that 25th Oct - 1st Nov is a free-death week in the game, it is a great time to get daring with PvM and try bossing feats you had kept on the backbench. So be sure to tag call with the RS3 boss roles in Discord if you're keen to try one of the common group bossing encounters with CQ. We are always looking to get more clanmates involved!

All sorts of PvM questions are welcome. Some examples:

"What gear should I take for Arch-Glacor @[SpecificPvMHelperForArchGlacor]?"

"How should I set up my melee action bar?"

"Which familiar do I take to Araxxor@[SpecificHelperForAraxxor]?"

"How do you avoid the stuns at Kerapac?"

"What is your setup for solo Ambassador @[SpecificPvMHelperForAmbassador]?"

"Can someone explain the regular Nex fight to me?"

"Which potions should I take to Vindicta @[SpecificPvMHelperForVindicta]?"

"How do the amulet of souls and reaper's necklace differ?" (I didn't really know the answer to this until basically a month ago so there we go, we never stop learning)

"I keep dying to the Telos explosions in phase 3, what should I be doing?"

"What is a good ranged weapon I can buy without having to throw away 50m gp?"

"How do I stop dying at Raksha?" this last one is from me but it might have helped if I made my question more specific here

You can generalise questions to the whole thread, or target someone who flags themselves as a person who is familiar with the boss your question pertains to, the choice is yours.

If you prefer, some of the helpers have also said they are happy to be contacted discreetly via Discord PM if the need arises.

It's also fine for you to respond to a question if you're not one of the listed helpers - so long as we are delivering a good answer in the end.

Zodiac will be posting the list of PvM helpers below with the specific details.

Other than that, keen to see some new CQ faces popping up with PvM this week and beyond!

Zodiac

Underneath is a list of bosses with associated helpers, as well as people helping with ability bars and rotation, feel free to tag any of them if you require help!

Solo Bosses:

Raksha: Zodiac, Pop

Araxxor: Pop, Tim2, Shiro Shana, Thaxy, Alaska, Zodiac

Nex: Thaxy, Zodiac, Pop, Alaska

QBD: Pop, Tim2, Shiro Shana, Thaxy, Zodiac, Alaska

Group Bosses:

Vorago: Pop, Tim2

Solak: Pop, Tim2, Zodiac

AoD: Pop, Zodiac, Thaxy

Raids: Tim2, Thaxy, Pop, Zodiac

RotS: Tim2, Alaska, Pop, Shiro Shana, Zodiac

KK: Pop, Tim2, Alaska, Shiro Shana, Zodiac

God Wars Dungeon 2:

Telos: Pop, Zodiac

Helwyr: Tim2, Shiro Shana, Alaska, Thaxy, Nordic, Zodiac, Pop

The Twin Furies: Shiro Shana, Alaska, Thaxy, Nordic, Zodiac, Pop

Vindicta and Gorvek: Shiro Shana, Alaska, Thaxy, Nordic, Zodiac, Pop

Gregorovic: Shiro Shana, Alaska, Thaxy, Nordic, Zodiac, Pop

Elder God Wars Dungeon:

Kerapac NM: Alaska, Shiro Shana, Nordic, Zodiac, Pop

Kerapac HM: Tim2, Zodiac, Pop, Nordic

Croesus: Tim2, Shiro Shana, Alaska, Nordic, Thaxy, Zodiac

Arch-Glacor: Zodiac, Pop, Thaxy, Shiro Shana, Alaska, Nordic

Zuk: No one! (Try asking in the chat, maybe someone has the answer!)

ED1 - Temple of Aminishi: Nordic, Pop, Zodiac, Alaska, Shiro Shana

ED2 - The Dragonkin Laboratory: Nordic, Pop, Tim2, Alaska, Shiro Shana

ED3 - The Shadow Reef: Nordic, Pop, Alaska, Tim2, Shiro Shana, Zodiac

Note: If a boss is not listed, you can assume anyone on the list should be able to help with that boss.

If you require help with ability bar creation or ability rotation, you may tag any of the following helpers:

Pop, Zodiac, Tim, Thaxy.

We also encourage you to go to PvME discord's "#dpm-adivce-mage/melee/range" channels for more detailed information about ability usage.

If you want discreet help, and do not wish to post your question in the thread, you may send a private message to any of the following helpers:

Alaska, Pop, Zodiac, Tim, Shiro Shana, Nordic, Thaxy

Delenda

May as well break this in with something tangentially related to pvm ive been wanting to ask for a while. How do i optimize my keybinds?

This is what im rocking right now, and while its fine for revolution and I can get my basic defensives down easily, i really dont feel like this is optimized for full manual. I feel like I hit my peak as far as revolution DPS goes, but the keybinds are my main bottleneck right now. I imagine its largely down to personal preference, but is there a basic guide I can see?

(All the other guys are in VC right now trying Zuk for the first time so they might come in later to add something useful.

Alaska

Ability bars aren't really my thing, I'd leave it to the other guys. You've got more keybinds than me too because I'm awful with the combos. But when I reworked mine at the start of the year I went from the default numbers to QWERTY sort of arrangement for my main dps bars. I don't really like stretching my hand too far for my damage abilities so they're bunched up to the left of the keyboard.

But you're right when you say keybinds are mostly personal preference.

I also have my prayer flicks simple with 1, 2, 3, 4 because it just makes it smoother for me when I'm using those quickly. But again, it's what you are comfy with.

I'm pretty much always full manual with bossing except for some specific things (p4 rax sometimes, raksha when I have been learning).

(All the other guys are in VC right now trying Zuk for the first time so they might come in later to add something useful.

was meant to make this a reply post but eh 😛

Tim

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1t-eO5ZOABXzp78gxCIiOIAxi7IN95J6XxLNZ1vVKl_M/edit If you think you need to move stuff between action bars but have a problem remembering what keybind goes where, this google spreadsheet will help you. Im currently going through adjusting my action bars as I have a lot of things doubling up between switches bars.

Zodiac

Just to give my take on it, I would be focused on putting powerful basics on easy to reach buttons such as q-t or something like that, and prayers really easily accesible like 1-4, I personally also prefer having soul split here for soul split flicking. I also utilise a lot of shift modifiers, but this can end deadly in some scenarios due to the game sometimes registering 2 inputs, shift modifier and without it

ViNightshade

What's hard about keybinds is that the personal preference is hard to find. There is no optimal way to do it, you gotta try and fail untill you figure out what works for you personally. What I did was try to match my action bars to my keyboard and add CTR + ALT modifiers to that. Basically, I use my left hand to cycle between 1 2 3 4 Q W E R A S D F which are 12 buttons I can easily reach. That is also the order of my keyboard (numbers on top of Q on top of A) so it's even easier to follow. Then, I use CTR and ALT on those same buttons to add another 24 keybinds. I have those set up visually left to right as well to make it easier to read. The last row is just my switches on my mouse so that one always looks hectic lol just ignore it

My pinky rests on CTR, my three middle fingers on Q W E, and my thumb on the space bar to use on ALT or my movement abilities on Z X C V.

Zodiac

tbh, you just need to start transitioning, the start is gonna be difficult, and you should make as many changes as possible in the early stages to what makes you comfortable. Some people make the mistake of not changing stuff early and decide to do it way later, this is a big mistake, as it's hard to change the habits and muscle memory.

ViNightshade

Yeah, start slowly. As slowly as you need. Leave everything except Ultimates on Revolution and activate Ultimates yourself. Then, take out the Thresholds from your Revo bar and learn to activate THresholds and Ultimates yourself. Here is when you gotta learn how each Threshold works and when to use each one. For example, you want to use Detonate first when fighting lots of enemies so it goes off cooldown faster and you can use it again. Vs a single enemy, you hit Wild Magic first. It's the small details like that which make you a better and better PvM'er over time. Once you now how all your Thresholds and Ultimates work and you learn WHEN to use them correctly, you transition into manually using your basics. Here is when you do the same process as which Thresholds - you gotta learn which basic to use and when

Yeah, start slowly. As slowly as you need. Leave everything except Ultimates on Revolution and activate Ultimates yourself. Then, take out the Thresholds from your Revo bar and learn to activate THresholds and Ultimates yourself. Here is when you gotta learn how each Threshold works and when to use each one. For example, you want to use Detonate first when fighting lots of enemies so it goes off cooldown faster and you can use it again. Vs a single enemy, you hit Wild Magic first. It's the small details like that which make you a better and better PvM'er over time. Once you now how all your Thresholds and Ultimates work and you learn WHEN to use them correctly, you transition into manually using your basics. Here is when you do the same process as which Thresholds - you gotta learn which basic to use and when

Tom | Thax

This is pretty late, but I started with this video, and I think it still holds pretty true, helpful for setting up home keys and using mouse keybinds if you have them (YouTube video ID: zn_y-_2giZg)

ViNightshade

@pop @Zodiac How does Greater Conc affect 4ticking? Im kinnda confused by it lol I gotta do auto+gconc --> dw ability --> auto+Sonicwave --> repeat? Or is just basically weaving in autos whenever im not coming out of a channeled ability and thats it now

Tim

the pvme has a section on it. https://discord.com/channels/534508796639182860/534567464370044928/900803780185047040

ViNightshade

Yea i read it Maybe i cant read but like This is like Gconc WITH auto Dw ability Any ability Gconc with auto?

Or is it something else?

Tim

since it increases your crit chance you can auto + gconc, then use a high damaging 2h thresh. dont want to waste the buff on a low hitting abiity. like with greater ricochet, you wanna be casting this on cooldown.

ViNightshade

So is my auto always going with gconc? Cause before i would always weave an auto with my Sonic Wave I mean with a staff lol

Tim

you dont want to auto after casting gconc.

ViNightshade

Azdf So i auto before gcong

Tim

Yes

ViNightshade

And then a threshold with my gconc buff hopefully If not, then go into a Sonic wave And then another ability, and THEN gconc will be off cd? Or am i just confusing myself Lmai

Tim

pretty much. you could also dbreath if you happen to not have any thresholds. you just want that hit after gconc to be high hitting because you get a 15% crit chance from the 3 hits from gconc. or 10% if you only land two but I dont see why you cancel it anymore like you used to.

ViNightshade

Yea i got into the habit of canceling it Seeing it go faster is also like wtf Xd

Zodiac

A little late, but generally you want to gconc -> non-channeled DW ability -> 4taa + 2h abil, repeat. The idea is to have as much gconc as possible as it's a very powerful ability, but it shouldn't take priority over getting in your standard thresholds whether inside or outside of sunshine

ViNightshade

Do I auto with that first gconc?

Zodiac

If it's your very first ability and you're coming into combat sure. But if you're already in combat, you should never auto with DW It means you're wasting a tick you could otherwise use on a strong DW basic/threshold. @ViNightshade

ViNightshade

Asdf Im gonna have to practice at the dummies

Zodiac

something that I forgot to mention @ViNightshade is for channelled abilities you technically want to do gconc -> dw abil -> 4taa 2H/(can also be dw but 2h is more dmg) + DW Channeled ability -> dw abil -> 4taa+abil. If you don't do the dw channelled you'll miss out on the normal 4taa. So if you use channelled abil with 2h, use one extra ability in between 2h channelled and 4taa.

This is obviously fairly nitpicky, but might be nice to know

ViNightshade

Actually that looks like a good rotation to replace my old 4taa one To build adren

Zodiac

wdym?

ViNightshade

Cause the dw channeled will be gconc or asphyxiate most of the time

Zodiac

yes, but that rotation should technically only be used for asphyx/tendrils. And the other rotation I mentioned earlier should be your "normal" one. if you 4taa into gconc you're missing out on using more powerful basics such as dbreath/corruption blast/sonic wave

ViNightshade

What if i do:

gconc -> dw abil -> 4taa -> DW Channeled ability -> dw abil -> 4taa+abil and repeat?

D breath, c-blast, and sonic wave will go on the 4taa ability

Zodiac

I'm assuming you mean "4taa + DW Channeled ability"

ViNightshade

Yeah Oooohhh I see now Ok

Zodiac

that would work, but you would run into an issue very quickly with that rotation, you wouldn't have enough dw channeled abilities OR your dw channelled would be gconc

ViNightshade

Yeah exactly I see that Thanks

Zodiac

I can give you a short video clip to show the difference, because they're quite different in execution, give me a second.

ViNightshade

Yo that would be amazing

Zodiac

it's just do demonstrate the difference between 4taa+2h abil, vs 2h 4taa + dw channelled https://streamable.com/rftpxf https://streamable.com/kfm4by @ViNightshade (I may or may not have cut away the 2nd 2h auto + dw channelled as I may have gotten a dw auto instead of 2h lul. A lot easier to do it from time to time than b2b haha) (also a little slow on the 2nd 4taa, but yeah, do as I say not as I do )

ViNightshade

Wow thank you! I can check it out after class

Alaska

I asked this in vc last night but I don't know if I understood the reply, was in the midst of zuk stuff. For greater ricochet, if I don't have an ecb (this is mentioned on wiki and pvme to hold caroming perk for grico if the ecb isn't shoved into eof), should I still be making a secondary asc oh switch to hold c4e2? I don't think it's ideal to camp that in my regular oh asc in place of aftershock 4 equilibrium 2........or is it?

Tim

Yes. Greater ricochet is ranges strongest ability as it can proc a bolt effect on ever hit. You get 7 hits with caroming 4 that, if there isn’t any other enemies around, will all go onto your target and proc. Ecb spec just makes it stronger but it’s the bolt procs that make it so strong.

Alaska

so switch oh asc, or camp it on existing oh asc switching for basic seems hectic but idk what is normally done

Tim

Depends on what you have on your oh already. And your mh as well. You’ll get more damage output if you have it as a switch, but if you’re not big on switchscape camping it I believe is normally better.

Alaska

might just try out switching first. I don't really want to pull a4 off my oh bow atm got p6a1 to carry stacks anyway

Tim

If you have as4 I’d keep it on and switch to caroming.

Alaska

10s cooldown is a bit of time to work with anyway

Tim

You want to make sure you get the maximum amount of hits from greater ricochet. However I’m not a ranger, zodiac might say differently but I’m pretty confident with what I said.

Zodiac

@Alaska I'm Home in about 40min, gonna give my opinion on it then, but Tim covered majority

Tom | Thax

My preference is strongly towards C4E2 camping. It hurts to remove aftershocks, but grico is up every 9.6 seconds, meaning you have to switch 12 times a minute to use that switch.

It also requires you juggle aftershock elsewhere, or with that many switches aftershock will glitch out and lose a ton of it's damage. It's theoretically best damage, but based on the intensity of inputs, isn't practical for a lot of PvM.

Like Tim said, Caroming gives you a ton of damage, and when you include bolt procs and poison, can double (emerald baks/ poison) to triple (Rubies) Grico's damage, before even factoring in 7 chances to activate a god book, which is absolutely massive, and should outperform any other perk.

Alaska

Decent argument. And honestly between flanking, shield, planted feet, future me would probably regret juggling a switch just for grico If I ever get ecb it will likely go onto that and that might be my alt ranged wep to camp on. Until that time it sounds OK enough resting caroming on my usual oh asc instead of a4. It's only a4 on my oh asc anyway not a4e2. Could maybe do equipment separator though.

Zodiac

Finally home, I would personally recommend for a c4 switch. The reason for this is, well 1. Higher damage output. 2. You get more used to switches. The first point can obviously be reached by just camping c4. Which is fine in 99% of scenarios. However, by also making it a switch you're forcing yourself to try and switch every approx. 10 sec. Which at the start can be tiresome, but after some practice it becomes second nature. And thing about weapon switching is that it doesn't just apply to ranging, it applies to all styles. So by practicing this you are also indirectly practicing lunging switch (i.e. masterwork spear) and to some degree also 4taa with mage by being more comfortable with switching. (edited)

now, if you cba. with the effort camping c4 is more than fine.

Tim

You already should be switching for flanking and not just camping that perk, if you set up your key binds you can make it pretty simple to switch between the different weapons.

Now you will either need to use a different weapon (chaotic is better than glaive, but ascension is better than both) or dye an ascension to allow for the switch in your action bar.

What you can do is have your switch to the weapon be your greater ricochet keybind + shift/alt/ctrl so you just need to press the modifier to equip, then let it go and press the button again.

Then have your switch back to your main OH weapon be another keybind nearby.

Alaska

Yeah, I think I'll just make a switch. may as well practice it

Alaska

Alright so I haven't really dabbled with adrenaline renewal potions and one sat forgotten in my inventory my whole run of tzkal-zuk. What am I meant to be doing with it / when is the appropriate time to take a dose? How does it fit in with replenishment potions and limitless?

Zodiac

ds/sunshine/zerk + adren renewal that's the general rule of thumb. There are other scenarios where you'd also want to drink it, but it's often quite niche

Alaska

Soooo is it just another option on the shelf alongside replenishment and limitless after your ultimate?

Derp

It restores 10% more than replenishment Quite good Drawback is that it's a renewal effect so not instant adren

Zodiac

It's a superior potion to replenishment. It is the best adrenaline potion you can make, shares the cooldown with them.

Denniz

Which is mostly fine, for example when you combine it with zerk and mutated barge. If you barge into the target you have a 6s timer to do your treshold, the renewal + 2 basics will make you hit 50% easily for the treshold to be bled in your target And with DS you can just shoot like a grico and do another treshold and then start a rapid fire

Zodiac

To put it this way, the adrenaline over time effect really doesn't matter in most cases, even when considering speed kills.

Denniz

The drawback from renewals I'd say is that you have a 4-dose instead of a 6-dose with enhanced replendishment But due to EGWD making renewals is at least quite a bit cheaper now due to adren crystals being dirt cheap

Zodiac

True. It's more expensive but it's a really good potion I feel like the extra 10% makes a significant difference

Alaska

You can transfer them to flasks But I think I get it now. It's more adren but drawn out vs instant adren but slightly less. And both share the same cooldown timer. Oh I guess Dennis meant the dosage per potion made is less so it's just a bit expensive compared to replenishment.

Denniz

Yeah you get more bang for your buck w/ enhanced replendishment

Tom | Thax

?

You can also use renewals to build from 85->100, ult, and still get some benefit

Zodiac

Pretty sure he means in creation process <.< 4 dose turns to 6, for enhanced replenishment. While renewal is 4 -> 4

Tom | Thax

Ah, yeah that's valid.

Tim

You should alternate between using limitless and adren renewal as they both have a 2 min cooldown. Use either the first ultimate, then the other the second and so on. However I do find myself using both limitless when I need devotion and I’m not at 50% or adren renewal when I can’t defensive build adren and need a little for an ultimate.

Alaska

yeah, normally I will choose between limitless and replenishment potion after an ultimate but rarely both unless I am saving my ass and I guess now it will be between limitless, replenishment and renewal at times.

Tim

Replenishment and renewals share the same cooldown so it’ll be one or the other.

Alaska

Not sure if I'll take both then, unless there's going to be a scenario when I need to choose one of the other at a boss

Tim

Adren renewal is always the better option. Only time I’d see replenishment useful is if you want prayer as well but you can’t drink it like a super prayer renewal as you get locked by the 2 min cooldown for the adren part.

Alaska

So it's kind of the holy ovl vs salve argument. Do you need the extra edge at a boss or should you just go budget probably not the best example, salve has a lot more specific perks over holy ovl

Some follow up on this, did my runs of zuk yesterday using renewal instead of replenishment and it went quite well. I like the renewal, but will probably just save it for the harder stuff that demands one.

Zodiac

Alaska, a true chad, deems Zuk "not hard enough" 😔

ViNightshade

All i can add to this is that you get used to the more adren over time with the Renewals. It lets you plan your thresholds better and it increases your damage output. You basically go Sunshine into Renewal, then Sunshine into Limitless Sigil, then Sunshine into Renewal, etc. . . And once you have that pattern down, its hard to go back I realized this doing AoD, I made the change from Replenishments I think to Renewals and it basically organized my dps much better and I got more consistent at it

Zodiac

This might just be me, but I feel like adren reneweals gives you more time to prepare, even though they don't

ViNightshade

Hahaha that too, since you dont grt the instant adren you have time to pick which threshold you wanna use

And you dont lose adren from going over Like you would with the other potion

Alaska

Naw it's definitely a hard boss and I'll probably take renewals to it but I think I can be doing better to make the runs go smoother. they're just more expensive so I don't really want be camping renewals if I am at something that can be done ok with replenishment pot

ViNightshade

Yea true they are But theyre so good though

Tom | Thax

Yo, Zuk's Arena Brain Trust (basically whoever sees this, but especially @Denniz @Zodiac since I was talking to you guys earlier) I wrote this out for someone, these are the safespots I've ended up using, how does it line up to what you've been doing on your runs? If you haven't tried these, and you have a chance to test them, tell me what you think, and how they compare! I tried doing the entire Arena from both the SE and NW spots, but these have been best for isolating the harder monsters for me. I've been able to soulsplit the entirety of the waves on both ranged Power armor and Animate dead setups from these, but maybe there's room for discussion, or maybe i'm missing something on a specific wave. 1-4 you start standing east of mideast rocks, 6/7 you start northeast, just north of the ENE rocks, 8 you dance the west/north side of mid-NW rocks, 11-13 and 16 you start in the southeast corner (edit) 14 I start on the West wall, and can usually trap the mages behind SW and E rocks while I do the other 2 mages. Also this is mostly geared towards learners and normal mode, Obviously 4/9/14 on hard mode are a different story.

Zodiac

Problem with this is, I don't remember what the waves are in normal mode 🥶 I just remember hard mode

ViNightshade

On wave 8 what do you mean by dance

Tom | Thax

I alternate between the north and west sides of the blocking rock there, in order to get the TokXil to move so they reset their stacking bonus, and alternate killing the ones on the east/south side of me.

ISKH

Can someone post a vid of the surge mechanics to get away from zuk sear and smashing his sword making eruptions

Zodiac

There's a very simple way to clear the sear. If you have bladed dive with you, you can surge through him, and bladed dive back, which should clear it. And eruptions are a little random so you kind of just have to run away. To me it seems like running opposite to where you're standing of zuk is a relatively safe spot.

Xurdones

Surging straight through Zuk avoids eruptions like 90% of the time for me

Denniz

Yeah zuk places the quakes where he smashes his sword, surging behind him will usually avoid any quakes

Xurdones

I do still get hit by them sometimes; maybe that's a timing thing, or maybe I'm just getting unlucky

Denniz

A good cue for when to surge is when you see the yellow text above his head and hear the voice line I instantly surge when I see / hear that for both Sear and Quake

Xurdones

Any tips on surging in Igneous Rain? It kicks my ass partly because I can't seem to get quite to the safe spot within two surges, so I take a couple of ticks of damage from the fire (assume I don't have bd)

ViNightshade

Barge the last few spaces

Xurdones

(think emoji)

Derp

What I do is run a few squares towards Zuk so that I surge straight through Zuk End up just behind Zuk, run a few squares left and you should be safe

Xurdones

Hm, I've been trying to go to the middle and then angle out; maybe I'll try that instead

Tom | Thax

For the first two summons, I don't surge any more, unless i'm really ahead and can line it up. I anticipate as soon as I see the first "Immune" hitsplat, then spamclick under zuk to run underneath him. His hitbox doesn't actually extend to below his knees, and he faces you, so just click between his feet. Then I target the monster and hit a thresh to pull me in range of it, out from under Zuk, but in the pizza slice. It means I have less running to do between sides, and has made my Pizza Times way safer.

Xurdones

I feel like that's not going to work for me just because I can barely (and not 100% consistently) kill the Hur before the Xil spawn, so I tend to need to move quickly to get to the second pizza slice

Tim

If you stand next to zuk then you should have no problem getting to the next minion. weapon poison and bleeds are also very useful to dot them down after you need to move.

Xurdones

I need to be better about using poison it's true Ugh you're making me want to try again

Tim

cinderbanes and weapon poison+++ are very useful throughout the whole fight. but tbh, im so stuck in rs2 that weapon poison goes on the weapon I forget many times to put it on. old habits die hard.

Xurdones

Imagine having Cinderbanes Maybe I should bring Emerald baks as a switch for the minion phase though

Tim

if you have a darkbow eof then hydrix would be very useful to burst them down with the etra adren.

Xurdones

I'm bare minimum 356 Reaper Points away from having an EOF, and that's assuming I even want an EOF

Tom | Thax

NGL, I've been abusing potion reservoirs, mostly for overloads, but you could use them for poisons, too Just so it auto-reapplies

Tim

you'll want an eof.

Tom | Thax

Yeah... EoF's are nice... gstaff/dbow go brrt, if nothing else. Less impactful for the core of melee, but for the other styles...

Xurdones

It's the "recharge with crushed alchemical hydrix" that I'm not fussed on Though that's what I used to say about degradable equipment in general, so who tf knows

Alaska

I don't really need to recharge my eofs too frequently. If you're mindful to only take them to bosses you really need them at and not to something like legiones like I did briefly. They get a bit addictive though. I have one for each style though so when I spread around, they don't really plummet as fast.

Xurdones

Okay this is actually helping me; managed to get him down to 19k, and then died stupidly because I couldn't DPS the minions fast enough

Zodiac

Nice! so close!

Xurdones

Even better I don't feel like ragequitting despite failing at killing him for an hour Tomorrow is my time, I can feel it

Zodiac

You're so close, you definitely have it!

Tom | Thax

Yes!

Tim

If you take a video of yourself we can help you figure out where improvements can be. And if you want, we can also get into vc tomorrow and I can help you through screen sharing.

Xurdones

Probably won't be able to do vc, but I can try to take a video

ISKH

All I can add was I was heartily fed up with the whole ZUK final fight until I realized they go down quite easily providing you remember that the first attack on the first one needs to be a stun, and the first attack on the second needs to be a threshold and you need to be very friendly with the third. These people who ooze DPM don't need to worry about that, but us mortals do.

Xurdones

I AM YOUR GOD NOW

Ty for the help everybody 😆

Zodiac

Gratz!

ISKH

Nice

Xurdones

Video is here, happy for tips/advice (YouTube video ID: BJXXgTG7nVk)

Zodiac

Haven't watched through the whole thing yet, but a very quick observation is lack of threshold usage in death swiftness. As soon as you have the adrenaline use a threshold. In this case since you're not using adren renewal or planted feet, you should try and do rapid fire into snap shot into rapid fire. If you also get a lucky ring proc, you could try and get a shadow tendrils in there as well.

You should also try to avoid using bombardment in most cases, it's not a very good ability against single targets, but using it like you did against the ranger was a decent choice since I don't think you had any other thresholds. Death swiftness is a really powerful ultimate and you should try and utilise it as best as you can 😄

Xurdones

Yeah my kills started going smoother when I started using it/using Persistent Rage and Adren crystals to drop one right at the start

Zodiac

That sounds about right. Since you're using hydrix bolts here, keeping an eye on you're adrenaline is fairly important because you get so much adrenaline from them. So just keeping an eye on when you can threshold (and if it makes sense for the boss of course), then you should threshold, or maybe even ultimate if death swiftness is off cooldown or if you have the new ranged cape.

Xurdones

Yeah fair

Zodiac

Besides that, it looked good! It can be tricky to get stuff down quickly enough without dbow in an EoF, but you handled it well

Xurdones

I tried to thresh Zuk as much as I could up until he does his big magic attack; I'm paranoid about firing thresholds after that because I really need all of them for the minions and don't want to be caught with any on cd But I could probably stand to drop more swiftness than I do; I was keeping it basically for the start of each cycle Also need to be better about keeping devo up 😅

Zodiac

I feel like you were doing a decent job with DS, there were a few times you could've popped one, but with pizza time (the 3 minions) you can't really utilise it until the end. Something you can do, is if you can count 2 attacks after the big typeless hit from Zuk, you can then stop using thresholds. This gives you a 2 attack window + some more to get ready for minons.

Xurdones

Hm fair

Zodiac

In the end, it looks like you did pretty well, just keep in mind with the adrenaline next time as you never know when hydrixes decide to give you 50% adrenaline O.o

Xurdones

Yeah fair

ISKH

which bolts would you recommend? Onyx or Hydrix?

Xurdones

I used hydrix because I was paranoid about having enough adren to thresh all the minions, but I'm not confident it was strictly necessary Certainly make it easier though, even if it's not exactly optimal adren usage, and Zuk drops hydrix bolt tips like candy

ISKH

Think I did the one kill I have done so far with ruby as did not think to swap, but I have eof dark bow But onyx look like they may be useful for waves

Zodiac

Since you have dark bow eof, I would say hydrixes, but if you want to save yourself some money and play it a little safer you can switch between them during the waves for when you think you want health vs doing dmg. On zuk I would almost exclusively camp hydrixes to allow for more specs. but it does cost more, which is something to keep in mind

Tom | Thax

I don't know if I qualify for oozing DPM, but at 31kc, more than half the no-checkpoint runs I've lost have been to not-doing-this. It's definitely important for everyone!

Delenda

Am i crazy or does zuk sometimes decide to ignore the special attack order after igneous rain?

Xurdones

His rotation resets when he hits 100k hp, that's all I can think of

Delenda

Thats probably it. I got the quake then back to the mage burn with freedom still on cooldown

Xurdones

Yeah that happened to me too

ViNightshade

Dis. Its cause on hard mode at 100k he does a new attack. So on normal mode, its just restarting the rotation. Its so weird sometimes lol

Tim

if you stand on one of the cracks during the quake you get another burn.

Tom | Thax

100k ion hardmode is a new mechanic. I'm not sure if nm is bugged or intentional, but he goes immune for a single tick and restarts his rotation at the beginning when you hit 100k on normal mode.

I kinda like it as a mechanic to reward you with Pizza Time skips if you do lots of damage, but it's definitely not intuitive. I tend to save my freedom if he just bled me and he's under 150k LP.

Alaska

Tbh thinking of my raksha attempts last night my issue isn't really prayer flicks anymore. I was actually camping ss and flicking to mage and range quite well. Ignored melee because well.....that one feels like half a second of reaction time. I wasn't doing too awful for shadow pools in p3 towards the end either and some attempts I got those done rather smoothly.

I think my main issue is dps, particularly in p3. I'm hanging around too long in p3, needing to deal with specs and everything and this is when I actually start eating. If I am on ripper I'm sort of entering p4 with no food (if I'm able to even reach p4 and not die to silly things in p3).

I'm not sure how useful it will be to deliver advice here, it might be simple to stream my attempts and get some advice that way. Just not sure I'll have time this evening.

ViNightshade

Alaska i was having the exact same.issue when I was struggling for my first solo at Raksha!@ How I finally managed to get the kill was using laceration boots with a Masuta Warspear as a switch for the p3 pools Switching to the melee prayer and doing the bd cycling between the pools om the correct.timing finally got me the kill And same as you, i would go into p3 without eating and would eat quite a lot there lol I ended up bringing sailfish with sara brews just for that part Which heal you more And i also focused on just doing the bd's right and ignoring raksha cycling through disruption shield, excalibur, and just eating

Zodiac

If my alarm works, I'll be up quite early, so if I'm on I'll shoot you a message and maybe we can figure something out

ViNightshade

I wouldnt even try to pray flick; just get the timijg on the pools right Im gonna go for a G Chain now so im coming back to Raksha I'll try to figure it out again tooo lol

Lord_dustea

So @Alaska , you're running around and collecting the orbs after the initial shield, yeah?

ViNightshade

For Raksha you mean? Oh, yeah lol

Alaska

Yeah

Lord_dustea

But anyways, this is how I handle p4 raksha, Alaska.

-I start the wave dropping a vuln bomb right next to raksha -dps until you get to shield -break shield (try to be close to higher adren) -run around collecting orbs after it breaks and pop a few basics on the way if you can. -I usually do death swiftness or berserk and click the extra action -dps as much as you can until the second shield (might be like 25k-100k left depending on dps -I usually don't collect many more orbs after second shield but if there's a lot of lp left you can go around for a second set of orbs.

Wasn't exactly sure which part you were talking about needing help with

Alaska

maybe I don't get all of them but I do roughly a 3/4 circle because at that point the next mage stun is about to happen and I'm trying to get md before it lands

Lord_dustea

Yeah that should be plenty with a 3/4 circle I usually only get 180 degrees by the second hit lol

Alaska

Ah so getting second shield isn't really the end of the world, I thought it meant I was doing poorly. More or less I was doing things in the order you mentioned up top, it just got shaky around the part of the action button because of some stray mage smoke, getting anxious about low food, few stumbles. and maybe I'll try for 180 degrees. I recorded my fight so it's there to watch and pick apart in a call if any of the raksha guys want to during some spare time. It's a bit difficult to take on advice during a kill. But then doing more kills would be good practice.

Lord Cadarn

anyone have a quick and dirty nm zuk guide i dont want flawless just no checkpoint nm

Alaska

Actually, just remember derp wrote a guide. It's for flawless (so all challenges passed) but could probably be translated to just a no checkpoint run either way https://clanquest.org/wiki/TzKal-Zuk_guide (it is pinned in rs-pvm too) I'm just not sure how many zuk people are awake rn. I know 3pm my time is normally dead hours. I'd help you if I could but I really need to get back to something irl I notice derp has a lot of BiS ranged gear in that guide. It would make things easier but the whole thing could potentially be done with lower gear.

Lord Cadarn

i was gonna mage it

Alaska

I maged mine :D but I also did it in BiS gear. I think for maging, blood spells might be handy for healing. Blood barrage If you don't have a blessed flask make sure you take a substantial number of super restore flasks too. There are the kihs that can drain prayer, and you'd be in the arena for about half an hour. Idk how many flasks that works out to.

Lord Cadarn

i have greater con blast i heard thats top tier

Alaska

Yeah that's going to be really helpful there. It's a good ability.

ViNightshade

Blood Barrage + Vampirysm is the way Use the safe spots, take your time with the mobs. Dont rush out of the safe spots, this fight is not timed. Using Dark Form, Protection Prayers, and the Anguish prayer thing I used about 7-9 Super Restore Flasks. Dark Form will save you a ton of food so make sure you use it Read guides, watch videos on how to deal with the challenge waves, the Jads, Har-Aken, and Zuk Dont expect to get it on your first few runs cause its a ton of info and stuff you gotta learn

Alaska

Yeah, it might be handy to just go in for some messy trial runs and see how you fare. Then come back and say what's causing the most grief. Can offer advice on specifics. you gather some loot for waves cleared, just no uniques unless you kill Zuk.

Lord Cadarn

i dont care about the loot its about the cape

Alaska

for covering resource expenses 😛

Lord Cadarn

thankfully death cost is currently 0

Tim

The first challenge in NM you can get away with using a threshold on each of the 5 minions in the first challenge, then using strong basics and gstaff to fill in the rest of the damage.

Lord Cadarn

i mean I can just eat it right?

Tim

The second challenge gstaff is very useful to deal over 3K and actually do damage to the minion. And the last challenge you can either prayer flick and reso the grey hits or get a barricade that is at least 12 seconds that you cast as soon as the 3 minions spawn.

Lord Cadarn

i mean i just need to live right?

Tim

I mean if you don’t think you can make the dps check you can just eat up. I don’t know if the damage scales with the amount of minions left. NM it’s not hard if you manually cast the thresholds, even on revo. I did it and I revo my basics. And didn’t even use greater chains ability to take out a couple of them at once. The first challenge is a really good way to see how your dps is. Like I’ll say to anyone asking for PVM help, if you record yourself and show us, you’ll get the best responses because we can see what you’re doing.

Alaska

I feel like it does, that's just going off my early experiences though

Lord Cadarn

im not sure if i want to go a full offensive or full defensive build like should i do MH blood barrage and offhand exsanguinate?

Tim

Blood barrage with dark magic prayer makes the healing effect more common. So you will get more passive healing if you aren’t 4taaing.

Lord Cadarn

i dont 4taa ever

Tom | Thax

Quick And dirty Zuk I wrote out for another discord: -First attack is bleed. Freedom the bleed. -4 autos later he slams you and lowers your armor until you travel 15 squares. Double surge through him and back immediately to clear that. Drink a does of super restore to reset your constitution level. -4 autos later he slams the floor, causing cracks that apply bleed and armor reduction. As soon as he swings his sword, surge and run 3-5 spaces farther, and you should be out of the range. Swap to Magic prayer for the next auto he does. -4 autos later he drops a nuke on you with a loud voiceline. Disruption shield that, or use debilitate prior to the attack. Timing resonance for this is very difficult. -4 autos later he summons an igneous meleer, ranger, and mage in order. Must kill them all and hit button before he instakills you. -Freedom at the start of this mechanic. Click the floor between Zuk's feet (he is always facing you), then when under him, click the monster to run out into the safe zone and attack. Repeat for the Ranger, repeat for Mage. DO NOT SURGE, you'll miss your surge and end up on fire. Repeat from the top

Xurdones

fwiw I always reso the nuke and don't find it hard to time ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Just smash my keybinds as soon as he says his line

Tom | Thax

My reaction time isn't very good, I usually just barely make it to my keybinds for Disrupt, which is immediate and doesn't rely on switch or global cooldown, but I guess it's personal preference, you could count the autos and reso it, as well.

Xurdones

Yeah Disruption Shield is going to be better for the GCD reason if nothing else, but if you don't have it/aren't used to using it, I find reso effective with the keybinds Pretty easy to just smash T Y when Zuk yells, I find anyway ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ (edited) It can screw you if you get caught in the gcd

Tom | Thax

haha, I smash ".," It's a miracle I haven't been nuked more

Xurdones

Now having just defended resoing the nuke, I just died twice in a row to failing to reso the nuke Maybe don't listen to my advice

Tom | Thax

If it makes you feel better, I did one this morning and signed then died twice trying to reso Jad hits.

ISKH

ZUK 😦 I need help on understanding how to move around when the lava is on the floor. I just seem to surge to my death

Tim

As soon as you get into the lava, its 1/3 a way around teh arena. just go under zuk once he moves you and you can get to the spot in tie. time* and after you target the 3 minion, go back to near zuk so you have time to get to next slice. bleeds and poison will allow you to leave early and they will dot the minions down.

ISKH

so walk under zuk not try to surge to the minion

Tim

well walk near zuk and you;ll have time to get to the next minion.

ISKH

nice, ty

Tim

you can surge then bd. start walking towards the next minion, then surge and then bd. and you should end up in the safe area.

ISKH

not got the invent capacity for bd switch, too hungry

Tim

are you using your enchanted excalibur as the OH?

ISKH

can do, but using range so left db switch behind

Tim

this is my preset, with a yak with 1/2 sailfish, 1/4 blubber and brews.

ISKH

125 vuln bombs, I only take a few

Tim

I was vulning every enemy. to make it go faster. but I also made 10k for 120 herb I decided not to sell.

ISKH

what are the switchs, planted feet...

Tim

cwyr wand is PF. defender is E4R3. shield is T4 for 3rd challenge and bigger healing.

Xurdones

Malletops perk also works for third challenge if you don't have T4

Tim

Ya, 2 malletops on a T80 defender can get you to 10 seconds. you just need to barricade once the minions spawn.

Xurdones

fwiw you don't really need bd; if you Anticipate before he pulls you and then spam click around his feet, you can easily step into the safe area (stick close to him) and have plenty of time to kill the minion before the floor changes

ISKH

so staying close to Zuk is the key

Xurdones

It's been working for me anyway, yeah

Tim

if your dps isn't that good then having that second mobility ability is very useful. I personally had no problem getting to the next minion.

ISKH

I am dpsing them ok if I can get to them. stun, and either dark bow or tendrils gets the first on, thresholds for the second and the third is ok. but I mess up getting there its very frustrating

Tim

if you record yourself I can give you some pointers. or if you wanna stream I can give you tips while the kill goes on.

ISKH

free deaths have ended !

Xurdones

Already?

ISKH

I will try and record next time I have got to go now, by ty very much for help Tomorrow midday I think free deaths ends

Xurdones

Oh okay, that makes sense; I thought you meant they'd ended already 😅

Tom | Thax

Never surge, especially if you don't have BD. Zuk will always face you at the start of each of the flame phases and between each minion. Before the first minion, freedom and click between his feet. when standing under him, click the minion to attack it. One movement command, one monster click, guarantees you won't be in the fire. No failed surges. His clickbox does not extend all the way to the floor, and clicking between his feet will always allow you to walk under him. This also prevents you from being too far away, so it's quick to get to the next segment each time.

Lord Cadarn

So whats like a high end pvm inventory set up? For solo bosses like zuk, telos, AG, etc

Tom | Thax

Very much depends on the person, and very much depends on the boss.

This is what I use for Telos, but I'm really not a switch-user for the most part, some people would have switches on there for Flanking or other perks. A lot of my presets may include a second rune pouch, a melee mainhand for bladed dive (usually Stat Hammer), or an ammo switch or two.

Melee presets for high-tier people tend to include DW, ZGS(possibly in EoF), and SoA, with an extra offhand for flanking.

Lord Cadarn

i dont know what the potions are, the 2nd from left 2nd row, 2nd from left 3rd row, 3rd from left 3rd row items are.

Alaska

I'm on mobile here is my completely incomprehensible reply

Delenda

Tainted repriser on first item. Barrows offhand notshield

Alaska

I know zodiac uses those blue green combo pots too I legit don't know what they are for yet

Delenda

And spiritual prayer

Alaska

Also mb, purple one is just adrenaline renewal I don't think there is a super variant

Ahhh I thought it looked like a repriser But why repriser AND vengeful shield for telos? Oh I just realised Pf switch Mine is on glaive for ranged Are spiritual prayer like a more costly upgrade from super restores? Restores prayer and summoning points right?

Shane

summoning special move points yes

Alaska

I asked my boyfriend to tell me what some of the items were.

Delenda

Who’s bringing the 🐀 next aod?

Zodiac

I am disappointed in the lack of blubbers I see 😔

pop

Where do i get purple shampoo?

nordic

me too too many solids

Tom | Thax

I basically only use food when I panic eat, thus the solid foods. The rest of the time can soulsplit flick or resonance, no real need for blubbers.

Zodiac

ahh, I just know that if I ever need to panic eat at telos I'm probably dead, so I'd rather keep the adrenaline

Tom | Thax

They allow your familiar to use special attack again, it's an unbelievable damage increase, for a similarly unbelievable price, but if you need to restore prayer points and are using a ripper or titan, they make more sense than using extreme prayer doses. I spam them so familiar is constantly special attacking (just by watching the special move points bar thing) if I'm doing speedkill attempts, and for Morvran's DnD thing in prif. Also useful for the DPS checks at some bosses like Solak

Fair enough, I don't really do high enrage telos, mostly just low streaks for reaper tasks, so the 10% or 20% adren cost to heal back up to 7000 health in a couple ticks is usually worth it.

Zodiac

I typically fail in p3 which is death over 200% frequently

Tom | Thax

Fair enough. That's a rough balancing act if you can't burst it.

Delenda

P3 telos at that level I just gave up trying to use the beams and hide in the corner where it’s safe (until virus)

ViNightshade

If i believed in myself more i would try to git gud at telos

Delenda

Whats the best pieces for animate dead without losing too much dps (if i only have superior seasinger)? is it top, bottoms, and helm?

Zodiac

helm, boots, legs, or helm, gloves, boots if not poisonable I guess

Derp

You mean helm boots legs in the first case? @Zodiac

Zodiac

yes 5 hours of sleep go brr

Tom | Thax

Y'all crazy.👀 Superior seasinger is augmentable, so you're comparing animate dead PLUS the natural damage reduction on the tank armor, usually ~3% per each of helm/top/legs (tank boots/gloves do NOT get any of this bonus) VS just the damage bonus from the power armor, which is 1% or less for each of top, legs, helm, cape, and boots+gloves, unless the equipment has other passives. Blast diffusion boots gonna be better than the 1% dps increase from a power armor top, likely the first piece of power gear to bring back after cinders and cape, if you're stepping down from animate.

If you wanted 3piece, either for Crypt or Mazcab sets, Helm/Legs/Top if poisonable. Helm/Legs/Gloves (+/- top based on personal preference) if not.

Also dominion tower gloves are tank armor that will outdo seasingers almost everywhere non-poisonable if you own them.

If you really want to push it, you may situationally find using the Ancient Cloak (or a 3A druidic cloak, but lol) better than a kiln/zuk/mage arena cape, but that's mostly personal preference.

Zodiac

This man wantin BIS perks on temporary tank armour

Alaska

The best setup but most definitely not the most accessible.

ISKH

OK I have got quite comfy with melee for Telos and typically do my slayer assignment as kill streak(s) starting at 50%. My highest enrage is 135%, best time 6:40 and longest streak 8.

If I am going to push the envelope all the guide say use magic. As mage seems to work for ZUK and Popsicle I thought I'd give it a go. My DPS is not as high with magic.

I have an inquisitor staff and seismic switch and eof with guthix staff. So have started a new streak with magic. Using seasinger and animate dead as that works at ZUK but have got tectonic.

P3 with melee I just zerk and trash him down from red beam. Normally its does not take long but if its going badly I barge to minion(s) to keep the enrage down. What approach should I be using with mage. I am trying getting to red beam and onslaught. What strategies are there for coping when it goes off piste?

P4 golems - what do I for these? With melee i switch to shield and khopesh, pray melee and reflect and kill volcanic and glue them if I can with a sticky bomb buts that's a bit random. Guide says staff is good for golems. Does it mean the ones on P4? How can you use defensives? What are the tricks and tips for clearing these as they are the most annoying bits.

Whats the best defensive to use against SO MUCH POWER, or do I just vit pot it?

Any help appreciated.

Zodiac

It's worth noting that most of the top end Telosers say that Melee is the most comfortable late on due to it being the most consistent, however I think a lot of people would also say the same for magic so I guess it would be personal preference.

One thing to note is that I would not recommend tank armour at Telos, at least not until you start pushing the enrage high and you're starting to struggle with the basic attacks of Telos doing too much damage. The main reason for this is that Telos isn't an endurance fight like Zuk and most people get the kill in 8 minutes and less. Not only that, but having the extra damage of the power armour can help you phase Telos faster during p3, lowering the risk of death. It can also help during p4 where you'd want to utilise stuns and high damage output to also make that phase safer, to both avoid trying to on-tick a disruption shield or getting two SMP (so much power).

Which brings me to covering P4. With magic, you'd start of phasing telos to the first font by just doing damage, and being a little careful not to phase Telos with 2, 1 or 0 auto attacks before you phase to the font so you have a little for defensives to reset after font. Once you're in the font, the most common strategy is to pray melee. Reflect (and maybe also Revenge) until the font is fully charged. Once it's fully charged it's typical to do a detonate + dbreath + auto attack on the same tick. But this can be tricky, so doing detonate into dbreath should be enough assuming you've hit the golems with some abils before going into the detonate. One thing to note as well is that it's recommended to charge detonate with dual wield and switch to 2h to release the detonate. If this is too much, charging with the 2h is plenty.

(1/2)

As for SMP, there are a lot of strategies. The most common being Disruption shield. A well timed disruption shield wastes no food or a lot of time and is quite easy to pull off assuming you learn the timing. The reason it can be tricky is that with Disruption shield, it's quite common for it to end up being tick perfect. If you do it too early, a melee hit could snipe it.

You can also, before the font is over, put enfeeble on Telos, reducing all incoming damage by 10% and just eat up. You can also combo this with vit pot as well. If you phased Telos into the Font just after he did a mechanic, meaning you have 3 auto attacks before another mechanic such that your defensives have reset, you can also try to use Resonance (this can be on tick as with disruption shield, devotion can help), or Reflect + Debilitate. However, this is assuming that Hold still is not going to be the next mechanic, and if it's the second mechanic, that you can phase to font 3 before it's too late so you can get the hold still Resonance after font 3.

Hopping a little bit back and forth, but going back to P3. You have, I'd say 3 options for this. All of these options assume good phasing from p2 to p3 such that Virus is the first mechanic. 1. Stand in beam + tsunami and do damage. 2. Stand in beam + metamorphosis and do damage. 3. Stand in beam and onslaught. I personally wouldn't recommend doing the onslaught method as it could become a crutch in higher enraged kills assuming you're gonna push it.

Lastly, you could also ask Denniz for his opinion on melee Telos or also some tips, as I believe he has pushed to 350% with Melee.

(2/2)

Lord_dustea

Should pin some of these strategies

nordic

Zodiac big Telos helper

Tom | Thax

Golems on magic: If wearing magic Zuk cape: Tsunami->detonate, if not wearing zuk cape: Detonate into tsunami. Also everything Zodiac said, all good advice.